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Neruda Interviews

Interview 2

What follows is a session I recorded of Dr. Neruda on December 28, 1997. He gave permission for me to record his answers to my questions. This is the transcript of that session. This was one of five times I was able to tape-record our conversations. I have preserved these transcripts precisely as they occurred. No editing was performed, and I've tried my best to include the exact words, phrasing, and grammar used by Dr. Neruda.

(It's recommended that you read the December 27, 1997 interview before reading this one.)

Sarah: "Before we begin tonight's session, I wanted to tell you that I've listened to last night's tape and have used it to formulate some new questions. I noticed that I was all over the place with regard to my questions, and tonight I'm going to try and stay more focused. So I'm just warning you that if I get off track again, remind me to stay on course. Okay?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'll certainly do my best... although I'm not sure what your course is."

Sarah: "Well, I guess I'd like to stay more centered on the WingMakers and the artifacts of their time capsule."

Dr. Neruda: "That's fine with me. But let me make one clarification first.

"The Ancient Arrow site was labeled initially as an Extraterrestrial Time Capsule, or ETC, however, it is not actually, in my opinion, a time capsule."

Sarah: "Good, let's start right there. What exactly is it, in your opinion?"

Dr. Neruda: "The site is part of a larger structure that's interconnected through some means I don't understand. We know there're seven sites that have been constructed on earth -- presumably in the ninth century. We know that these sites have some defensive purpose, and we know that the sites planners represent themselves are culture bearers, and are most likely representatives from the Central Race."

Sarah: "I hear a lot about 'defensive weapon', but how can these wall paintings or the music artifacts be considered part of a defensive weapon?"

Dr. Neruda: "We know from our RV sessions, that the WingMakers designed these sites to be more than a defensive weapon, otherwise, as you point out, the cultural artifacts wouldn't make any sense. However, it also doesn't make sense that they'd be completely unrelated to the objectives of a defensive weapon. I'd make the hypothesis that they're DNA triggers."

Sarah: "You mean they activate something within our DNA--as you were describing last night?"

Dr. Neruda: "Correct."

Sarah: "And how does this relate to a defensive weapon?"

Dr. Neruda: "It was our hypothesis that the cultural artifacts, if studied or examined, would somehow activate parts of our DNA. For what purpose we weren't certain, but I intuit that it has something to do with stimulating our fluid intelligence and enabling sensory inputs that have been dormant within our central nervous system."

Sarah: "And do you have a hypothesis as to why?"

Dr. Neruda: "Presumably the enhancements to the central nervous system makes the defensive weapon more effective."

Sarah: "It's so damn easy to get side-tracked when talking with you, but I'm going to resist the temptation to move into a line of neurological discourse, not that I know anything about it anyway.

"Tell me more about your role with the WingMakers' time capsule--or whatever you want to call it."

Dr. Neruda: "I think for accuracy and consistency, we can refer to it as the Ancient Arrow site. As I said before, I'm confident that it's not a time capsule.

"To your question, though, I was working with a computer we call ZEMI, helping to translate the data contained on the optical disc found in the twenty-third chamber of the site. It contained text, symbol pictures, mathematical equations, and what turned out to be music files.

"Once the site was located, my primary focus was to decode the optical disc and make the data therein sensible and, as much as possible, applicable to BST."

Sarah: "Did any of it apply to BST?"

Dr. Neruda: "Not directly, at least nothing that I've read. The text was of a more philosophical nature. I was the first one to read their language. Once we unlocked the optical disc, we printed out eight thousand forty-five pages of symbol pictures like the ones contained in their art work, except much more varied, and, in some instances, much more complex. There were 23 chapters of text or symbol pictures -- each consisting of about 350 pages.

"I read the first segment or chapter of this text and was amazed to find that there were passages of text -- in the introduction -- that were only readable to me. This was additional confirmation that I had a role to play in getting this information into the public domain."

Sarah: "Are you saying that the text you read disappeared after you read it or that you deleted it?"

Dr. Neruda: "It disappeared. It deleted itself."

Sarah: So only the first eyes would see the message?"

Dr. Neruda: "Correct."

Sarah: "So what did it say?"

Dr. Neruda: "I can recite the exact words if you like, but it would take a few minutes."

Sarah: "Give me a summary."

Dr. Neruda: "The essence of this passage was validating what the ACIO had already known -- that the Animus were sending probes in 2011, and it was written in the form of a warning. It stated that the WingMakers had installed a defensive weapon on earth that would render the planet invisible to the Animus probes."

Sarah: "Invisible? How?"

Dr. Neruda: "They didn't explain with any precision. They wrote that higher frequencies were emanating from the central universe, and that these seven sites comprised a collective technology that somehow coordinated these frequencies or higher energies to bring about a shift in the planet's vibratory structure, enabling life on the planet to survive the shift and remain undetected by the Animus."

Sarah: "All life forms?"

Dr. Neruda: "Technically, the text didn't specify."

Sarah: "And this was for your eyes only?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, the ZEMI operator did not find any evidence of this section of the text. It completely disappeared."

Sarah: "What else did it say?"

Dr. Neruda: "It confirmed that we're dealing with the Central Race, and that they want the cultural artifacts from the seven sites to be shared with the public. These elements were connected to the effectiveness of the defensive weapon."

Sarah: "In what way?"

Dr. Neruda: "In the sense that the materials activate aspects of our DNA that make the shift easier, or perhaps possible, I'm not certain because they were a bit vague."

Sarah: "So, by reading the philosophy I'm supposed to be able to become invisible?"

Dr. Neruda: "I think it's more holistic than that. They left behind poetry, music, paintings, and even a glossary. It seems to me that all of these elements -- in addition to the philosophy -- are connected. Also, I'm suggesting that something fundamentally changes when these materials are absorbed, and perhaps this change, whatever it is, resonates with the technology from the seven sites."

Sarah: "Sounds far-fetched to me. Why do you believe this?"

Dr. Neruda: "I've absorbed the materials and I've noticed changes."

Sarah: "Such as?"

Dr. Neruda: "I defected from the ACIO. To me, that's the biggest change imaginable."

Sarah: "You're not implying that the materials you've read induced you to defect are you?"

Dr. Neruda: "It was a combination of many things, but it certainly had a significant impact on my decision. Did you read any of the materials I left last night?"

Sarah: "I read the first section and a little of the glossary. I didn't understand it. It was too abstract. It did have an effect on me though--it managed to put me to sleep."

Dr. Neruda: "I know it's a little intense, but you have to admit, it's very interesting if for no other reason than they're representative of how our distant ancestors think and believe."

Sarah: "And you have a copy of the all of pages of text?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes."

Sarah: "And can I see it?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but it's not something I carry around with me."

Sarah: "Tell me a little bit about the translation process since you were involved in it?"

Dr. Neruda: "The translation is the key to the usefulness of the optical disc, and using a carefully sequenced set of experiments, conducted by ZEMI, we were able to access the disc's data files in five days."

Sarah: "How do you know that the translation is accurate?"

Dr. Neruda: "Within the disc, once it was accessed, were translations indexes that enabled their text to print out in perfect English, or about sixty other languages. It took us a two days to figure out how to access the disc, but once we did, we were able to access the 24 sections of text in the span of seventeen hours."

The most vexing of the translations, and the one in which we have the least confidence is the music."

Sarah: "Good, I'm glad you brought up the music because I don't understand that element of the time capsule."

Dr. Neruda: "How do you mean that?"

Sarah: "Was the music already on the optical disc and you simply captured it from the disc, or was it basically produced by the Labyrinth Group based on the musical notations?"

Dr. Neruda: "Actually, it was a bit of a combination of the two. Their musical notations were very precise and they left digital samples of each of their instruments -- even vocals. So we simply translated their digital samples to a MIDI standard and produced our own version of their music."

Sarah: "So were you involved in the music translations as well?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. I helped in the initial discovery of their musical notation and helped with the translation indexes. I wasn't involved in its production phase, though I was very curious as to what it would sound like."

Sarah: "Can I hear any of these compositions?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, of course. When I left, the ACIO had successfully translated ten of the twenty-three music compositions. I have these. And they've been converted to both CD and cassette standards. I also have complete files of the remaining thirteen compositions in their raw, de-constructed form."

Sarah: "How were they produced exactly?"

Dr. Neruda: "Do you mean that technically or artistically?"

Sarah: "I guess both."

Dr. Neruda: "On the technical end we needed to step their samples down to a resolution of 384-bit in order to use them in our computer systems. When we first heard the samples of instrumentation, we were somewhat relieved to hear familiar sounds. There were some that were different, but for the most part, the digital samples that were encoded on the optical disc were the same as contemporary musical instruments heard around the world.

"Once we had captured their samples and organized them into octaves, we took their compositional notations and essentially let the computer select the digital instrumentation based on their samples. Eventually this all had to be stepped down to a 24-bit commercial CD mastering system, which was them pressed on a CD and recorded onto a cassette tape.

"As for the artistic production, there really wasn't much that we did. The computers did all the interpretative work and essentially performed the production for that matter. We had some of our staff perform overdubs on various versions to experiment with the compositions. The music was very popular, particularly when you listened to it at a sampling resolution of 384-bit."

Sarah: "Didn't anyone wonder why the time capsule included a musical construction kit instead of just having a recording of the music? I mean, why have us bring an artistic interpretation to their music?"

Dr. Neruda: "Everything was wondered about in the Ancient Arrow project. Everything.

"We didn't know why they did it the way they did it, but again our hypothesis was that the WingMakers didn't have a way to bring their music into our world because we lacked the technology to listen to it. So they disassembled their music into -- as you put it -- a construction kit, which enabled us to reconstruct the music so it could be listened to on our technology. It's the most logical reason.

"There were several of us who were able to experience chambers one and two as a completely integrated form of expression and it was a very powerful experience--to say the least. When you hear the music in 384-bit resolution with the original paintings, standing inside the actual chamber in which they were placed, it is a very moving and spiritual experience. Unlike any I've ever had."

Sarah: "In what way?"

Dr. Neruda: "Just that the sense of being pulled out of your body and into the portal of the painting is irresistible. There is a very strong sense of movement into and beyond these paintings, and the music and paintings are only two of the art forms, the third, the poetry is also part of the experience."

Sarah: "So tell me about the poetry."

Dr. Neruda: "The poems are expressive of a wide range of subjects. To most of us at the ACIO, they could have been written by any contemporary poet. There was really nothing that caused them to stand out as representing a culture billions of years older than our own. Many of the same themes about spirituality, love, relationships, and death were evident in their poems as well. There're actually two poems for each chamber painting, so there's a total of 46 poems.

Sarah: "That's interesting. Everything else -- the paintings, music, artifacts, and philosophy -- is placed one-per-chamber. Why do you suppose they've placed two poems in each chamber instead of one?"

Dr. Neruda: "In my opinion it was to provide a broader perspective into the particular theme represented by a specific chamber. The poetry appears to be designed in such a way to provide both a personal and universal perspective in each of the chambers--but again, it's just a working hypothesis at this time."

Sarah: "I assume from the examples you left me, that the poetry is also a bit less abstract when compared to their philosophy and paintings. Have you considered how the poetry is related to the paintings?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. And I believe the poetry and the paintings have the strongest connection of all the objects in each of the chambers. I think the paintings illustrate -- in some subtle way -- the themes represented in the poetry. In some instances, when the painting represents an assemblage of abstract objects, the poetry is also more abstract. When the painting is more illustrative, the poetry seems more like prose."

Sarah: Are you saying then that the poetry carries the central meaning of each chamber?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'm not sure, but it does seem that the poetry is somehow implied symbolically in the chamber painting that it's associated with. The problem is that the poetry is so highly interpretive that it's impossible to know precisely what its theme is intended to be. Also, and I should have mentioned this before, but the grammar and syntax of their language is very different from ours in that they have no end to their language punctuated with periods.

"In other words, if we made a literal translation, there would be no sentence structure--more like a logic syntactical approach--which simply means an abstracted language flow which would be, for most people, very difficult to understand. When I was doing the translations of the poetry, I placed it in a sentence structure that fragmented its meaning so that it could be better understood. Perhaps in the process I unintentionally changed the meaning, but it was either that or the poetry would be too abstracted to understand."

Sarah: "Is there a connection between the poetry and the philosophy of each chamber?"

Dr. Neruda: "My colleague and I felt that all of the objects within a specific chamber were connected--probably in ways we couldn't fathom. We were constantly worried that the translation indexes were somehow inaccurate, and that this was limiting our ability to see the linkages between the various objects. And of course the most puzzling connection was the technology artifacts because we had no way to probe or reach any conclusions about their purpose or function."

Sarah: "Let's talk a little bit about the artifacts found in each chamber. The only one that I've really heard about was the one found in the twenty-third chamber, the optical disc. I know you've shown me some photos of the others, but could you describe them better?"

Dr. Neruda: "The optical disc is the only artifact of the twenty-third we found that the AICO had successfully accessed, at least that I'm aware of. The other artifacts were all taken to the Labyrinth Group's research laboratory in Southern California immediately after they were discovered. These were never acknowledged to anyone below a security level twelve clearance. There were rumors within the broader ACIO that there were technologies within the Ancient Arrow site, but these never gained any serious consideration, and certainly not by the NSA.

"The technology artifacts were of the greatest curiosity to Fifteen because they represented possible solutions to BST. And, as I mentioned earlier, Fifteen and most of the Labyrinths Group for that matter, felt that the WingMakers may not allow the Labyrinth Group to deploy BST. Hence, Fifteen considered the WingMakers as possible foes, instead of allies."

Sarah: "But what I've seen doesn't look very advanced or based in high technology. They could pass for crystals or rocks--or something organic. Why was the Labyrinth Group so intrigued by them?"

Dr. Neruda: "The crystalline structures that were found, in most cases, did look quite ordinary in the sense that when they were examined by the eye, they appeared to be crystals, but when you looked at them through various molecular and atomic analyses, it was obvious that they were manmade objects. In other words, they were synthetic crystalline structures, and we held the hypothesis that they were encoded with information much like the optical disc or the paintings. We also held the hypothesis that they were potentially connected to the optical disc since it was the last of the artifacts and seemed the equivalent of a keystone or master key."

Sarah: "Did any of the text translated from the optical disc refer to the other artifacts?"

Dr. Neruda: "No, to our disappointment, there were no references."

Sarah: "You didn't answer my question about whether you felt there was a connection between the technology artifacts and the specific cultural artifacts related to each chamber."

Dr. Neruda: "Sorry, I guess it's my turn to get side-tracked tonight. Anyway, yes, there were connections--we were certain of this, but at the same time, because we couldn't get inside the artifacts and probe them, we couldn't prove our theory. Consequently, we placed all of our time and energy on the optical disc because is seemed to be the most important of the artifacts as well as the one we had the best chance of accessing through our technology."

Sarah: "Why?"

Dr. Neruda: "You must bear in mind that the technology artifacts were extremely alien to our technologies. Other than the optical disc, the other technologies were a combination of synthetic materials based on organic structures, and in some instances actually possessed human DNA within their structures. These were--"

Sarah: "You're saying that the technologies were in part human?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes... in a way. But what I was going to say, is that these artifacts seemed to have molecular-based computer systems that activated by a specific human touch. And we weren't certain whether it was literally a specific human, or a specific type of human, or perhaps any human in a specific state of emotion or mind. We had one hundred and fifteen possible experiments developed for testing and all failed."

Sarah: "But this is real odd--why would human DNA be inside a technology--and this talk about synthetic crystals--it leaves me cold."

Dr. Neruda: "We had some similar misgivings until we were able to translate some of the text within the optical disc. The philosophical papers from chambers one and two convinced us that the WingMakers could indeed be authentic and we had no other reason to disbelieve their story. That's not to say that we suspended all of our disbelief or caution, but the philosophy was a breakthrough to our understanding of their perceived mission with contemporary humankind."

Sarah: "I don't know--I read the first two philosophy papers you left for me, and I could believe that they're from an alien race. I could also believe that they're from a deceptive race that uses philosophy and all this cultural stuff to lull us into believing they're benevolent when in fact they're not at all. I mean isn't that part of the prophecy you spoke about last night?"

Dr. Neruda: "Well, I see you remain the ever-skeptical journalist. I'm actually glad to see that reaction.

"Sarah, all I can tell you is that when you take into account all of the cultural artifacts found within the Ancient Arrow site, and you immerse yourself in their content and philosophy, it's hard to believe they originate from evil intent."

Sarah: "Unless that's exactly what they wanted you to believe."

Dr. Neruda: "Perhaps. It's hard to debate such a thing. I think at some point it's an individual decision. The Labyrinth Group -- and I'm including the Corteum when I say that -- was in agreement that it was an authentic disclosure from the Central Race, and felt confident that we were not dealing with deception. But we never close the door to that possibility. Our security and operations directors put contingency plans in place in the event evidence was accumulated that increased the probability of fraud or deception."

Sarah: "One of things that seemed odd to me, having looked at the photographs of the chamber paintings, was how similar they all were. They were clearly done by the same artist--or I suppose a group of artists. But when I think of a time capsule, I would think you would include a variety of art from a diverse assortment of artists that represent a variety of perspectives and so forth. And that isn't the case here. Why do you suppose?"

Dr. Neruda: "I don't think their motive was to inform us about their artists or the diversity of their artistic culture. I think they intend that the art function initially as a form of communication, and subsequently as a form of time travel or moving out of the body consciousness. The continuity of the 23 paintings seen as a whole seem to be inviting the consciousness of the observer to quite literally step into the world of the WingMakers. As though they were portals, and I've experienced this myself.

"The paintings are incredibly brilliant in their colors. You really can't imagine how much impact they have when you see them in person, particularly after their cleaning and restoration was completed. But even when they were first discovered without any touch-up, it was eerie how luminous they were and vibrant in their colors after 1,150 years. There were many times when those of us who were involved in restoration and cataloging of the artifacts, would sit in the chambers and stare at these paintings. On several occasions I did this for hours just letting my eyes wander through the painting, and imagining the mind of the artist and what they were trying to communicate. It was a very powerful experience."

Sarah: "I think they'd scare me a little bit."

Dr. Neruda: "I'm only laughing because I had such an experience. One night after a long day of working in the artifact chambers, I was left as the last one inside the site. I had been so absorbed in what I was doing I scarcely remembered being told to activate the security system on my way out. About a half-hour went by, and I finally realized I was alone inside the time capsule--the silence was incredible. Any rate, I was walking down the corridor that connected all of the 23 chambers, and passed each chamber and I began to feel a presence that was overwhelming. Every time I would come upon one of the chambers I expected something from the painting to jump out at me. They literally seemed alive.

"Our lighting was a very high quality portable halogen system and every chamber was outfitted precisely the same. When I got to the bottom of the corridor -- what we called the spiral staircase -- and looked into chamber two, I clearly saw motion and nearly jumped out of my skin. Not necessarily out of fear, but out of excitement I suppose, though there was fear as well. But this motion was simply a blurred image of something stepping out of the painting and then disappearing into thin air--I couldn't really--"

Sarah: "What was it? Was it human?"

Dr. Neruda: "I couldn't see it clearly enough to tell you what it was, but I began to theorize that some of the chamber paintings may have purposes beyond just visual stimulation. Our RV also had some experiences of sensing motion in the paintings, feeling as though she was being pulled out of her body."

Sarah: "This may seem to be an odd, off-the-wall question, but how do you know this wasn't all a hoax? That someone or some group created this whole thing to look like an alien or future time capsule just for the fun of playing with your minds?"

Dr. Neruda: "The one thing we know for certain is that this is not a hoax. The Ancient Arrow site consists of an enormous rock structure that has literally been hollowed out in the form of a helix that detours every ten meters into a separate chamber -- twenty-three to be exact. The entire structure would have taken an incredible technology to build. We have accurate dating of when the chamber paintings were created, and they were conclusively produced in the ninth century, and we're certain that this technology didn't exist then."

Sarah: "I'm not trying to argue with you--but if these artifacts are really from the Central Race, it just seems so odd that they'd be buried inside a huge rock in the middle of nowhere--in New Mexico of all places. And it also seems odd that they'd go to all this work, but make it so damn hard to understand what the hell they were trying to say. Do you see what I mean?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, I understand, and I don't take your questions as argumentative. But the point I'm making is that this site is indeed a set of real objects. And these objects don't even correspond to the same time frame. For example, while the paintings were created about eleven hundred years ago, the artifacts do not even respond to our carbon dating or biochemical analysis. To complicate matters, the pictographs in and around the Ancient Arrow site were determined to have been created in the past fifty years, and could very well have been done in the year, or month, the site was discovered.

"These real objects are admittedly an enigma, but they are not a hoax to my eyes. The real question is whether the WingMakers' identity and purpose is as they represent it.

Sarah: "Okay, let's say it's not a hoax. Then tell me why're you so convinced it's a defensive weapon. It seems to me, that it might be more of a communication device--or perhaps an educational tool of some kind. Why a weapon?"

Dr. Neruda: "The text from the optical disc states this. And we had an RV session that corroborated it."

Sarah: "So, earth is this genetic library that the Animus want to use in order to re-create themselves as soul carriers, as you put it? And the Ancient Arrow site -- and its six companion sites -- is going to protect earth and all of us from these marauding aliens? How am I doing so far?"

Dr. Neruda: "I can't say that your specific conclusions are right or wrong. I can only tell you that the Animus are a real threat and that the WingMakers intend to protect their genetics."

Sarah: "Okay, then tell me, why would the Central Race, who lives trillions of light years away, would care about what happens to us?"

Dr. Neruda: "The Central Race is responsible for seeding and cultivating higher life forms throughout the universe, they're vitally interested in protecting their genetics from the Animus. Earth isn't the only genetic repository that they protect in this manner. Our RV sessions uncovered a database of planets throughout our superuniverse that was incalculably large."

Sarah: "So this is just standard operating procedure for this race--to install a defensive weapon on the planets they seed with life?"

Dr. Neruda: "I believe so."

Sarah: "I looked the word 'Animus' up in the dictionary this morning. It's a real word. How did a race whose most recent visit to earth was some three hundred million years ago become an entry in Webster's dictionary?"

Dr. Neruda: "Their name is known even by the WingMakers. They used the same word in their translation indexes. There are certain words that have been purposely seeded within our language by the WingMakers."

Sarah: "So now you're saying that WingMakers actually place words into our dictionaries?"

Dr. Neruda: "No. Remember when I told you that the WingMakers were culture bearers?"

Sarah: "Yes."

Dr. Neruda: "They have encoded the discovery of language, mathematics, music, and so forth into our genetic structures. As we evolve, certain forerunners of our species -- people like you and I -- activate a part of their DNA before the rest of us. These forerunners are able to retrieve this encoded information and share it with the species. In subsequent generations, this insight is transmitted, and pretty soon, the entire species encompasses this new information or skill.

Sarah: "So you're really saying that the word Animus was encoded into our sense of language, and someone invented the word, not realizing it was the name of this alien synthetic race?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, something like that."

Sarah: "I also read the memo that Dr. Sauthers [a colleague of Dr. Neruda] wrote about a global culture being an outcome of this technology from the WingMakers' sites. But how could these objects be used to build a global culture? It seems a little naive to me."

Dr. Neruda: "All I can tell you is that it's related to the Internet and a new communication technology that the WingMakers referred to as OLIN or the One Language Intelligent Network. If you read the glossary section that I left behind, you'll see it referenced there. The WingMakers seem to feel confident that the OLIN technology will help create the global culture through the Internet. This incidentally is consistent with prophecies that the Labyrinth Group was privy to dating as far back as 1,500 years ago. Of course the enabling technology wasn't called OLIN, but the notion of a global culture and unified governance has been predicted for many centuries."

Sarah: "This is what George Bush used to call the New World order isn't it?

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but there have been four other presidents who've acknowledged this concept."

Sarah: "What would make the world's people decide to unify under one governing body, or for that matter, create a global culture--whatever that means? I just can't envision it happening--not in my lifetime."

Dr. Neruda: "According to the WingMakers it will happen through the digital economy and then through the Internet's OLIN technology platform. And through this global network, entertainment and educational content will be globalized. This is the basis of a global culture with unified commerce, content, and communities. Once these pieces of the infrastructure are in place, then the need to govern this infrastructure will loom as the preeminent issue of the day. And the United Nations is the logical ruling body for such an endeavor. As long as the World's people allow the digitization of the economy and embrace the OLIN technology platform, a global government and culture is virtually assured to emerge."

Sarah: "And as you said last night, this is supposed to occur in 2018?"

Dr. Neruda: "According to prophecy, that's when the United Nations will hold initial elections for a unified world government. And it won't be an all powerful, centralized authority, but rather a global public policy decision and enforcement organization for issues that effect the world at large. Issues like pollution, global warming, border disputes, space travel, terrorism, trade, commerce, OLIN technology upgrades, and general technology transfer programs."

Sarah: "So what will happen to National sovereignty in this new role of the United Nations?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'm willing to answer your question in the form of a speculative response, but I'm also aware that you had asked me at the outset of this interview to remind you if you got off course. What would you like --"

Sarah: No, you're absolutely right. Sorry. Let's go back to the artifacts--what was the condition of the site when you first entered--or better still, why don't you just describe your first encounter going inside the site."

Dr. Neruda: "I was one of five from the ACIO who made the trip to New Mexico to explore the site after it was initially determined to have potential ET implications. None of us at the time knew anything that would have led us to conclude that the Ancient Arrow site would become such an important discovery.

"The only real clue we had was an artifact that had been recovered near, what was determined much later, as the entrance of the interior chamber of the time capsule. It was this artifact that brought the project under the control of the ACIO because the artifact was considered by the NSA to have potential ET origins."

Sarah: "What specifically led the NSA to conclude the artifact was alien?"

Dr. Neruda: "Like all the other artifacts it showed no response to carbon dating analysis and it had peculiar markings or symbols that seemed other-worldly. It was a pure grade composite of unknown origin. Also, and perhaps more importantly, there was no obvious way to activate the artifact or access its interior controls. Its interior was impervious to various spectrum analyses -- even simple x-rays were unable to penetrate the object.

"Any rate, this artifact was essentially handed over to the ACIO, which deemed it to be of ET origins, and then proceeded to investigate the region in which it was found. We discovered that the outside casing of the artifact held a detailed topographical map that defined the region in which it was discovered. We began to think the artifact might activate or become more useful if taken to the region depicted on its casing.

Sarah: "Is this the artifact you showed me pictures of?"

Dr. Neruda: "No. This artifact destroyed itself after it led us to the Ancient Arrow site."

Sarah: "Why did you think it was important to activate it where it was found?"

Dr. Neruda: "Because it was thought to be a form of a compass or homing beacon. We weren't sure, but we couldn't determine any functional purpose in the laboratory, so it seemed like a logical experiment to see how the device would function in the area in which it was discovered. Also, the original people who found the artifact complained that it induced a hallucinogenic experience when it was held near the stomach area.

"The exploration team from the ACIO figured out how to use this device to locate the entrance to the interior of the canyon wall in which the Ancient Arrow site was hidden. The device, when activated, seemed to pass thought waves or mental pictures of where it wanted the person to go. The RV assigned to our team was the one holding the device when it was first activated, and she immediately began to see pictures. I did as well. Ultimately, it led us into a cave-like structure tucked 20-30 meters inside one of the clefts of the canyon wall."

Sarah: "Was there an entrance already, or did you have to blast your way inside?"

Dr. Neruda: "The way into the interior was cleverly hidden behind a natural made cavern, which in its own right was well hidden by natural underbrush. This cavern was about 25 meters deep and led inside the canyon wall. We presumed it was an Indian dwelling of some kind that had long been abandoned. Towards the end of this cavern there was a corridor that jutted off to the side, and at the back of this corridor there was another chamber. A large, flat rock on the floor hid the entrance to the site.

Sarah: "So you were convinced there was something underneath the rock?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. After removing the rock, we were able to determine a tunnel was indeed underneath it. The tunnel was in the form of a "J" and was about one meter in diameter. I slid down first through the tunnel and crawled my way to the entrance of the site."

Sarah: "So all five of you were inside this--this site, looking around with flashlights, what was running through your mind at the time?"

Dr. Neruda: "We were all very excited and somewhat apprehensive as well. We thought we might find an ET site, and were half-aware that it could be an active site--which kept us all on guard.

Sarah: "And this whole thing was carved out of rock?"

Dr. Neruda: "It was completely manmade--or alien--and we knew it the instant we got out of the transition tunnel. It was like being born into a completely new world. It was absolutely silent; the air was cool, but not uncomfortably cold. There were no signs of life, and it seemed like everything took on a new purpose--an intelligent purpose that we couldn't wait to unravel.

"What was so remarkable was the incredible sense of walking into a surreal world -- a world that was created by something completely alien. We assumed it was of ET construction from the moment we stepped out of the "J" tunnel."

Sarah: "But how did you immediately know it was an artificial construction, and not a natural set of chambers or caves?"

Dr. Neruda: "At the beginning of the spiral staircase there were ornate petroglyphs carved in the stone with a precision never before seen by our eyes. Also, the entire tunnel system was clearly too smooth -- almost polished -- to be of natural construction. There was a sense of architecture--a sense that someone designed it with extreme care and purpose.

"Amazingly there was nothing on the floor. Not even a pebble or a grain of sand. Every surface was completely clean, smooth, and polished. There was dust, but only dust. And something like a polymer coating had been applied to every square centimeter of the structure including the ceilings.

"When we arrived at the first chamber, which is only about 30 meters from the entrance, I can clearly recall a sense of awe or something approaching a religious experience I suppose. No one spoke for a long time after our lights hit the first chamber painting. Everyone's flashlight converged on the painting and we all just stared for about 40 seconds in the incredible silence of this tomblike structure."

Sarah: "Did you find all the chambers that same day?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. We went from chamber to chamber, each time feeling like we had stumbled into an alien natural history museum. You have to understand that our lighting was not very good because we hadn't expected to need anything more than basic flashlights. I vividly remember seeing each of the chamber paintings for the first time and just staring at them--mesmerized by the incredible anachronism of the place. I'd never been in such a surreal environment--it was both eerie and completely enchanting at the same time."

Sarah: "So how large were the chambers and the paintings themselves?"

Dr. Neruda: "The chambers themselves were relatively small--about four meters in diameter with fairly high ceilings, in some instances as high as six meters.

Sarah: "So, judging from the photographs I've seen of the chamber paintings, the paintings themselves must be fairly large?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, they're large and always face the entrance of the chamber. If you stand just outside the entrance of a particular chamber, you can't see the whole painting; it's too large. You have to walk into the chamber in order to see the whole composition."

Sarah: "What, in the opinions of the Labyrinth Group, are the artistic merits of these paintings?"

Dr. Neruda: "No one within the Labyrinth Group claims to be an art critic I can assure you. I think it's fair to say that of those who saw the chamber paintings in their original environment found the artistic merits to be very compelling, even captivating. I think those who saw them only represented in photographs thought they were less art and more of a cog in some masterfully designed wheel like an illustration in a children's book."

Sarah: "Not to change the subject, but I keep wondering how you came to choose me--I mean--I know you said it was completely random, but why did you select an average journalist to share this story? Why not a scientist or someone who could at least ask you more sophisticated questions? I have to confess that I feel completely inadequate to interview you, mostly because I don't even know what questions I should be asking you."

Dr. Neruda: "You're doing a fine job--absolutely fine. You shouldn't worry about your questions. They're insightful. And most people, who will read this information, will be more interested in the things you've inquired about than the physics or science involved anyway."

Sarah: "Perhaps, but I have this nagging feeling that if I could ask you the scientific questions then you could more easily prove your story or credibility. I think I'm handicapping you in some way."

Dr. Neruda: "What is it exactly that you feel you're not asking me?"

Sarah: "I guess it's mostly things related to time travel and BST. Last night you talked about some things that when I re-read them earlier today, I felt like I should have asked more in-depth questions."

Dr. Neruda: "Like?"

Sarah: "That's the problem, I don't know."

Dr. Neruda: "Sarah, the reason I selected you was simple. I needed to find someone who knew how to access the mainstream media, and yet be relatively obscure. Had I chosen a science editor from a major newspaper, I may have ended up with more scientific questions and less about the cultural, artistic, and social implications of the Ancient Arrow project. Of my random selections, I knew that you had no established image to protect, that you knew how to access the media, and could ask sound questions that wouldn't betray your identity. That's why we're talking right now--and the fact that you didn't think I was crazy."

Sarah: "I never asked you this before, but I'm just curious, was I the first journalist you talked with, or did someone turn you down before you found me?"

Dr. Neruda: "No, you were the first and only person outside of the Labyrinth Group whom I've talked with about this story."

Sarah: "I'd like to change the topic slightly and ask you about Fifteen's personality--is that okay?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, that's fine."

Sarah: "What's he like as a leader?"

Dr. Neruda: "He's extremely focused, and demands everyone he works with to be similarly focused. He's a workaholic, sleeps about four hours a night and works the rest of his time on some aspect of BST. If there's research or development of new technologies that don't have a specific and strategic impact on BST, he's not involved in it. Won't even ask questions about projects of that nature, and generally within the ACIO, there are always three or four projects that are unrelated to BST. Within the Labyrinth Group, every project is related to BST."

Sarah: "What's he look like?"

Dr. Neruda: "He's about average height and has fairly long gray hair down to his shoulders which he usually wears in a ponytail. He's always reminded me of Pablo Picasso with long hair--he has those same penetrating eyes. He's originally from Spain, so it's no coincidence that he looks like Picasso. His most notable feature is his eyes, they're mischievous like you'd expect from a child who's done something wrong on the surface, but underneath, they've created something wonderful, it's just that nobody understands the wonderful part yet. That's what you see going on behind his eyes."

Sarah: "I may have already asked you this, but how old is he?"

Dr. Neruda: "He's about 60 years old I think -- or at least he looks about that old. I've never heard anyone say his age. I know when he was a student, he was supposed to look old for his age. I think he started getting gray hair when he was in his early twenties, and that's probably why he was often mistaken for a professor rather than a student."

Sarah: "You said earlier that he was kicked out of school. Why?"

Dr. Neruda: "Remember, he was, even at an age when most kids are concerned about dating and parties, working on BST--or at least early versions of time travel. He's one of those rare visionaries that enter the physical world and knew at a very early age what he came to do. Fifteen was born to time travel. Period--end of story. That's all he's ever cared about.

"In the fifties, researching BST was considered a waste of time, no pun intended. It was simply too theoretical and disconnected from anything practical. I think Fifteen also rubbed his professors the wrong way because he was so bright as a student that he intimidated most of them. He's also very stubborn, and when the professors told him to change his research to something more practical, Fifteen apparently told them they were small-minded--or something to that effect. Later that semester he was forcibly expelled as the story was told to me.

"However, Bell Labs hired him for a short stint because his research on quantum objects and how they could be influenced by consciousness interested them."

Sarah: "Forgive me, but what exactly are quantum objects?"

Dr. Neruda: "They're elementals like electrons or neutrons. Quantum objects are fundamental building blocks of matter, and they can appear both as a wave and a particle."

Sarah: "Okay, so Fifteen was trying to prove that quantum objects are influenced by consciousness. Why was that so dangerous to a research university?"

Dr. Neruda: "That in itself wasn't so radical, but it was only a small part of his total research into how to construct BST using the new physics that was being introduced rapidly in the community of quantum physics. Fifteen has always maintained that Einstein's general theory of relativity was flawed. Which is not a popular position to take. In somewhat the same way that Newton's theory of the mechanistic universe became too constricted and unable to explain so much of the phenomenon of what we call today, complexity or chaos theory, Fifteen felt that Einstein's theories underestimated the influence that consciousness had on quantum objects.

"In the fifties and sixties, this was tantamount to heresy, particularly because it was impossible to prove by mathematical modeling or formula. Consequently, Fifteen just continued to develop his theories in secret and began to become noticed by the ACIO when he became involved in a project having to do with heuristic learning systems based on a technology that the ACIO had re-engineered from the Greys.

"The project leader from the ACIO recognized his intellect and rouge creativity and began to develop a relationship with the young man. Several months later, Fifteen was recruited to join the ACIO and essentially left his identity behind, quickly rising to the position of director of research. He was later introduced to the Corteum intelligence accelerator technology, and the rest is history as they say."

Sarah: "How exactly does this Corteum technology accelerate or expand the intelligence?"

Dr. Neruda: "Few people realize that their conscious mind only processes about 15 bits of information per second of linear time. However, in vertical time, the unconscious mind is processing approximately 70-80 million bits of information. Thus, in normal consciousness, humans are aware of only an infinitesimal amount of the information that is constantly being fed to them at the unconscious level. The Corteum technology was designed to reduce the filtering aspects of the conscious mind and enable the higher frequency information packets to be fed to the conscious mind.

"In parallel with this effort, the brain circuitry -- if you will -- is re-wired to handle the higher voltage of the information that is being fed to the consciousness, allowing capabilities like photographic memory and abstract thought to co-exist. These capabilities become the matrix filter that draws from the unconscious repositories the most relevant information at any particular time based on the problem or task at hand."

Sarah: "If I were a behavioral scientist, I'd be able to ask you about a thousand questions right now. But I'm lost in what you say--I mean, how many bits of information can you process right now?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's not really a simple question of the quantity of information processing, but rather the relevance of the information in linear time based on the intention of the individual. When one goes through the process of the Corteum technology, their ability to tune into information packets that are relevant to a situation or problem is vastly improved. In most people, when a given situation confronts them they access their conscious mind and pull out the solution that has served them in the past. Thus, people fall into ruts and patterned behavior, which closes down their access to the unconscious information packets that are based on real-time situation analysis and have extremely high relevancy.

"This technology accelerates the circulation of information between the conscious and unconscious aspects of the mind to flow in the pattern of an ascending spiral rather than the pattern of a repetitious circle. And because of this it unleashes the innate intelligence of the individual. So you see, the Corteum technology doesn't increase raw intelligence, it simply facilitates the natural intelligence of the individual."

Sarah: "This is very cool. I wish I could undergo this regimen of the Corteum intelligence accelerator so I could really ask you some zinger questions! And with that, let's take a short break."

10 minute break

Dr. Neruda: "Since you have the tape recorder on now, let me repeat myself. The Corteum technology was the single most influential element in helping Fifteen become the Executive Director of both the ACIO and the Labyrinth Group. Granted, he had a brilliant mind before he underwent the Corteum intelligence enhancement process, but for some reason, the technology seemed to enhance his intelligence more than anyone else--by a significant degree."

Sarah: "Did anyone ever suspect that the Corteum and Fifteen were somehow a separate force from the Labyrinth Group. I mean, did anyone consider the possibility that they had a separate agenda--maybe BST wasn't their ultimate goal?"

Dr. Neruda: "No. There was, and I presume still is, absolute faith in both Fifteen and the Corteum. You have to understand that the Corteum are a benevolent race. We never saw any evidence that they had anything but good intentions to assist us, and, to the extent possible, we tried to assist them in return. It was a courteous and completely reciprocal partnership."

Sarah: "You said last night that the Corteum were part of the Labyrinth Group, but only a couple hundred or so were actual members. How did they become part of the Labyrinth Group?"

Dr. Neruda: "Actually, I don't know for certain. I can only tell you what I was told when I asked the same question of one of the directors who sponsored me for entry into the Labyrinth Group. He told me that Fifteen had been selected by the Corteum to be their liaison with the ACIO. They singled him out, as the one through which they would initiate their technology transfer program with humans.

"Fifteen agreed to subject himself to the intelligence enhancement technology the Corteum offered. It was from this experience that Fifteen's vision of how BST could be developed was crystallized. He essentially created the framework and design blueprint.

"One of the things that the Corteum have in abundance is logical intelligence. They are very adept in terms of scientific inquiry and logical reasoning. By their own admission, where they lack ability is in the creative visionary aspect of discovery. This is precisely where Fifteen excels."

Sarah: "But you're talking about a race that is superior to us in their technologies, how can they lack creative insights?"

Dr. Neruda: "These things are all relevant. Compared to virtually all other humans, the Corteum are creative and visionary. But there are formative principles of physics that reside in a dimensional matrix that are completely foreign to all beings except the most penetrating intellects. And Fifteen has such an intellect. The Corteum are hoping that Fifteen, and more generally, the Labyrinth Group, can develop BST because the Corteum have their own application for this technology."

Sarah: "But last night you said there are other races within our galaxy that may already have time travel capabilities, why don't the Corteum simply go to these races and make a deal with them?"

Dr. Neruda: "As I said before, a species that has, of their own initiative, developed time travel will be unwilling to share it with another race. It is truly the most guarded of all technologies. And one doesn't simply ask to borrow the technology when they need it. Even when the need seems compelling and true. It's so easy to become dependent on the technology itself. Furthermore, as I tried to explain last evening, there's a considerable difference between time travel and BST. I'm not aware of any species that possesses the form of BST that the Labyrinth Group is attempting to develop.

"It's like this, Sarah, BST requires a suite of interdependent, but discrete technologies that require a developer to apply new theorems, new laws of physics, that have never been discovered before. And then to build this suite of technologies based fundamentally on a new matrix of how the world works--it's a daunting task. Everything previously held to be true needs to be destroyed, needs to be re-invented, re-formulated, and then integrated into this new matrix.

"This is the very nature of BST, you start with a blank slate and re-invent, re-formulate, and recreate the consciousness of matter."

Sarah: "Slow down--you just lost me. The consciousness of matter?"

Dr. Neruda: "Remember what I said earlier about quantum objects and how they're influenced by consciousness?"

Sarah: "Yes."

Dr. Neruda: "Quantum objects become increasingly granular or refined until they become pure light energy and cease to have mass. They are not of physical reality, but rather of a pure-state energy. This energy is further segmented into octaves of vibration. In other words, this light energy vibrates, and just like music, there are fundamentals and harmonics. The harmonics resonate with the fundamental energy vibration and the whole energy packet sings like a choir--except its voice is light.

"This singing, if you will, is the equivalent of a consciousness that pervades all matter--every physical object in the entire universe. Fifteen has successfully proven this all-pervasive consciousness or what he calls the Light-Encoded Reality Matrix or LERM, for those of us who like shorthand. Any way, LERM is just one of the new theorems that were required in order to devise a way to prove that BST was indeed a possibility, and not just a fanciful vision inside the mind of Fifteen."

Sarah: "This all-pervasive consciousness you mentioned, are you really talking about spirit or God?"

Dr. Neruda: "Exactly."

Sarah: "Now you've really crossed over the line. You're going to tell me that Fifteen discovered God. That he has proof of God?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, in a way, but--but God isn't what we call it. It's LERM. And Fifteen was quite emphatic that we never refer to LERM as God or even God-like. He preferred to think of LERM as the shadow of God. The light that casts the shadow, and the object of the shadow itself, he believes is impossible to prove through science or any other objective form of inquiry."

Sarah: "Okay--okay. But listen to me for a minute. If LERM is the shadow of God, as you put it, then it proves the existence of God, right?"

Dr. Neruda: "To those of us within the Labyrinth Group who understand the work of Fifteen, the answer is yes."

Sarah: "So isn't this even more important than the Ancient Arrow project? I mean, if someone had proof of God, isn't it their moral responsibility to share this information with the public?"

Dr. Neruda: "Perhaps, but the only way this could be shared with the public is to disclose who the Labyrinth Group is, and that isn't something that Fifteen even likes to contemplate doing. He's afraid of the ridicule and misunderstanding that would result, and firmly believes that no one would believe him anyway because there are so many hidden technologies that led him to his findings, and he has no interest in disclosing these technologies to academia, government institutions, or the media. He'd become the next messiah--or devil, depending on your perspective."

Sarah: "So he's trapped in his own secrecy"

Dr. Neruda: "In a way, but he's not feeling trapped. He's simply so far removed from the social fabric and scientific communities of academia that he has, for practical purposes, burned his bridges and has no intention of ever crossing the chasm that separates himself from all that he's left behind."

Sarah: "He must be incredibly lonely."

Dr. Neruda: "I don't think so. He seems extremely energized and basically happy. He's doing exactly what he wants to do, I can't say I've ever seen him depressed--maybe disappointed, but never depressed."

Sarah: "I still don't see the connection between LERM and BST?"

Dr. Neruda: "You see, if matter ultimately dissolves into octaves of light, and light dissolves into octaves of consciousness, and consciousness dissolves into octaves of reality, then matter, light, consciousness, and reality are all interdependent like an ecosystem. And like an ecosystem, if you change one element you affect the whole. Isolating any of the elements contained within LERM, and changing it, it can change reality. And this is a fundamental construct of BST. Does that answer your question?"

Sarah: "I'm not sure--I don't know, maybe all of this doesn't matter. Again, I'm feeling out of my territory. I find this interesting, but at the same time, it's frustrating. I even find myself feeling pissed off that all of this stuff is going on in my world and I don't know about it -- well, I mean I didn't know about it until just now. It seems like an injustice to me. It's the old haves and have-nots story all over again. Can you appreciate how someone would feel--hearing all of this for the first time, and feeling so left out?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, I understand."

Sarah: "To you, you can take all of this for granted. Afterall, you're in the know. But the rest of us, we muddle through our little lives thinking the world is this and that, when really we're just bumping into each other in the dark. We're essentially clueless, aren't we?"

Dr. Neruda: "I don't know--maybe. Maybe you're right, it doesn't matter. I simply know what I know and I believe what I believe. Any more than that, it's as mysterious to me as it is to you. It would be a great mistake to think that the Labyrinth Group, or any of its members, including Fifteen and the Corteum, understands it all. They don't. But they work hard to get the answers, Sarah. I mean really hard. They've devoted their entire lives to this mission of BST. They didn't simply fall into the knowledge by accident. They tried and failed at thousands of different experiments until they found the existence of LERM, and they'll probably fail another thousand times before they find the solution to BST. But believe me, these individuals didn't arrive at their knowledge casually or because it was gifted to them by some higher force."

Sarah: "No, I didn't mean it that way. I'm glad for the Labyrinth Group--I mean it. I'm happy that someone on this planet has figured this out, or at least is trying. It's just unfair that so few have the proof--the knowledge--the opportunity to understand all of this. Their lives are so different, they might as well be living on some other planet. They might as well be extraterrestrials."

Dr. Neruda: "I'm only laughing because that's been a fear of Fifteen's from the start; that if someone ever did find out about the Labyrinth Group and its agenda, they would be regarded as ETs. And here you are, confirming that fear."

Sarah: "In a way, I wish you hadn't selected me. My life is so different now. This is all I can think about. It consumes me every waking minute. I have no idea how I'm going to get this story out. I have no idea. None."

Dr. Neruda: "Sarah, do you remember the first time we talked and I mentioned the Corteum? Your first question was, What do they look like?"

Sarah: "Yes. And your point is?"

Dr. Neruda: "These are the natural questions that people will have. LERM may interest a few scientists, but I doubt it. What's portrayed in these interviews is so superficial that I doubt any scientist would take it very seriously. And those that would, would find it to be a noble gesture to authenticate monistic idealism, and nothing more. So you see, your initial instincts should be trusted. Ask the questions that people would be interested in that appeal to their basic sense of curiosity. And don't worry about changing the world through anything I have to say. I don't need that weight on my shoulders."

Sarah: "Okay, you're right. You're absolutely right. Besides, I'm not sure about the truth of all of this. I'm still not convinced of what you say--just for the record."

Dr. Neruda: "And I'm still not trying to convince you or anybody else. I'm just answering your questions as truthfully as I know how."

Sarah: "Touche.

"Now, for the benefit of those who read this interview eventually, what do the Corteum look like?"

Dr. Neruda: "I thought you'd never ask. They stand nearly three meters high and have very elongated heads and bodies. Their skin is very fair--almost translucent, like you might expect from a cave dweller. Their eyes are relatively large and have various colors just like our own, except the Corteum have different colors to their eyes depending on their age and, in some instances, their emotional state.

"What's very unique about the Corteum is that they have an incredibly articulate nervous system that enables them to process virtually everything that occurs within their environment, including the thoughts of another. Which means that when you're in their presence, you need to have control of your thoughts or else you'll potentially offend them. They're very sensitive emotionally.

Sarah: "How do they communicate with you?"

Dr. Neruda: "They speak perfect English or French, Italian, Spanish, or most any other language for that matter. They're very gifted linguists and can acquire average language skills in a matter of a few weeks, and operate as masters of the language within a few months. Their minds are like sponges, but like I said before, while they possess incredible mental powers to absorb new information and synthesize it with previous information, they're not necessarily adept at creating new information totally unrelated to existing information. That's precisely what impressed them so much with Fifteen."

Sarah: "What's their interest in the Ancient Arrow project?"

Dr. Neruda: "No different than Fifteen's I presume. They're completely absorbed in the efforts to create BST, and hope that there's some technology or theorem within the Ancient Arrow site that can help accelerate the development of BST."

Sarah: "And what do the Corteum want to do with BST?"

Dr. Neruda: "The Corteum have a planetary system that's in a very fragile state because its protective atmosphere is degenerating at an alarming rate. Their atmosphere protects them, just as our own, from harmful light waves that are generated from their local sun, and, to a lesser extent, their closest stars. Anyway, this condition has led them to become nocturnal, only venturing outside at night, and even then, only for as short a time as necessary. Over many generations, this has left them increasingly susceptible to the very condition that they're trying to solve. Their outer skins become more and more sensitive while their atmosphere becomes less protective.

"Their scientists predict it's only about 10-20 years before they'll have to stay in underground communities year-round. This has had a major impact on their standard of living, economy, social structure, every possible aspect of their society has been effected, and mostly in a negative way, at least by their own measure. They hope that BST will enable them to install a technology that they've recently discovered to prevent the deterioration of their atmosphere."

Sarah: "Why can't they simply deploy this technology now?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's not a regenerative technology, it's a preventative technology. Regenerative technologies are impossible once a system reaches a certain retrograde trajectory. In their scenario, only BST would restore their environment."

Sarah: "Obviously they have space travel technology, why don't they pick out another planet and colonize it?"

Dr. Neruda: "They have tried, but every planet they've found that's suitable for their species is occupied. And they're not interested in being assimilated into an existing culture or society. They want their own identity and social structure. Also, what they deem suitable for habitation is extremely particular. For example, they have the same problem with earth as they have with their own planet--in fact, it's worse here. They have to live in our underground base in order to survive on our planet. It required that we build a special way-station for their spacecraft."

Sarah: "Do they want to interact with our governments and our people?"

Dr. Neruda: "Initially I think they did. And in fact they tried. But they were quickly escorted to the ACIO and we convinced the NSA and all other interested parties that the Corteum had left earth fearful of their lives. So--as far as our operatives within the NSA are concerned, the Corteum are long gone, and fortunately the NSA at the time were quite preoccupied with other ET issues anyway, namely the Greys."

Sarah: "I want to return to the WingMakers for a moment. What do the Corteum think of the WingMakers' site, I assume they've seen everything?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, they've been involved from the beginning. The Corteum are as integral to the Labyrinth Group as any of its human members, so nothing is hidden from them. The leader of the Corteum mission to earth is called -- in English -- Mahunahi, and he happens to be an artist first and foremost, and a scientist is his secondary nature. He was always excited to see and hear about our findings. He asked if we could create a way-station to the Ancient Arrow site so he could visit the site himself, but it just wasn't practical to do so without drawing attention to the site."

Sarah: "I have a few oddball questions, so bear with me. First, every time you mention a member of the ACIO, Labyrinth Group, or Corteum, it's always a male reference. Are their any women in any of these organizations? And secondly, why would an artist be the leader of a space mission of the Corteum? That seems very strange to me."

Dr. Neruda: "In answer to your first question, it's true that the Labyrinth Group is mostly male. I'm not aware of this being by design, but rather by accident. One of the directors is a woman, she's in charge of communications, and, as a director has a level fourteen clearance. We also have nine females who are in the twelve or thirteen clearance categories, all of them are extremely bright and capable and share responsibility with their male counterparts without any form of discrimination--at least that I've ever been aware of. We even have one married couple. Each person -- regardless of sex -- is paid the identical sum of money and has all the same privileges--there's no distinction whatsoever within the ranks of the Labyrinth Group, and that's at Fifteen's insistence.

"As for the Corteum, they're all males. Their culture is much more role-defined than our own. And it's not to say that the females are treated as the lesser sex--no, in fact it may be the quite the opposite, it's just that space travel and interaction with other species is left to the male sex until species interaction procedures are brought into play. That's so their children can retain access to their mothers and their families can remain more intact. Most, if not all, of the members of the Corteum contingent are married.

"As for your second question, the Corteum look at science, religion, and art as three equal members of a unified belief system that defines their social order. As I understand it, leadership varies between each of these three elements of their social order, depending on the contact that is made with an alien race. When they first made contact with humans it was decided that the leadership should come from the ranks of the artistic side because they felt we were more of an equal in this domain and thus the leader could more appropriately understand our motivations and desires."

Sarah: "That's interesting. They actually thought we were more artistic than scientific or spiritual. I guess now that I think about it, I can understand that. As a race, we probably are more inclined in that way than the others."

Dr. Neruda: "That was their assessment any way."

Sarah: "I'd like to go back to the artifacts for a minute. The artifacts that are technology based, where are they right now?"

Dr. Neruda: "After the initial discovery of the Ancient Arrow site, all of the physical artifacts that could be removed from the site were carefully packed in shipping crates and shipped to the ACIO research lab in Southern California, and are held by the Labyrinth Group in its own laboratory. That's where they still are, to the best of my knowledge."

Sarah: "And only the homing device found outside the site and the optical disc have been, to some extent, understood?"

Dr. Neruda: "That's correct."

Sarah: "So we really don't know whether BST is possible, do we?"

Dr. Neruda: "We know it's possible, but it's like anything that is extremely complicated and interdependent, one needs a fine-grain understanding of the total environment that encompasses the problem before they can modify or change the environment to solve the problem. And this requires an understanding of LERM that is still evolving within the Labyrinth Group, and I dare say, may yet require years of experimentation before its understanding is sufficient to identify intervention points and time-splice in such a way to minimize undesirable effects."

Sarah: "So we're back to the shadow of God discussion--or LERM as you affectionately call it. Why is the understanding of LERM so fundamental to achieving BST?"

Dr. Neruda: "Because LERM is the equivalent of genetics for consciousness, and consciousness is the equivalent of reality formulation for sentient beings. So if LERM is understood, one understands the causal system that operates in non-time and non-space, which fundamentally constructs the reality framework of space, time, energy, and matter. Quantum objects operating in the construct of LERM have an existence that is entirely different from macro objects like this table or chair.

Quantum objects -- in their true state -- have never been seen by a human. Scientists have witnessed the effects and some of the properties of quantum objects, but their causal nature is not visible through scientific instruments--no matter how powerful they are, because scientific instruments are physical and therefore have a relationship to space and time. Whereas quantum objects have no relationship to time and space other than through an observer."

Sarah: "So you're saying that the building blocks of matter -- these quantum objects -- have no existence unless someone is observing them--that consciousness makes them appear real and fixed in time and space? Is that what you're saying?"

Dr. Neruda: In a way, but not exactly. Let me try and explain it like this. Consciousness stems or originates from non-time and non-space as a form of energy that is a basic building block of LERM. Consciousness becomes localized as it becomes physical. In other words, consciousness becomes human, or animal, or plant or some object that has physical characteristics. Are you with me so far?"

Sarah: "Yes."

Dr. Neruda: "Good. As consciousness becomes a localized physical object, it essentially orchestrates LERM to conform to a reality matrix that has been encoded into the genetic or physical properties of the object it has become. In other words, consciousness moves from non-space and non-time to become matter, and then it orchestrates LERM to produce a physical reality consistent to the encoded genetic properties of the physical object it has become. If that object is a human being, then the genetic triggers that are uniquely human become the tools of consciousness from which it constructs its reality.

"LERM is essentially an infinite field of possibilities, or, as Aristotle referred to it, Potentia. This Potentia is like fertile soil from which physical objects are created. Those who can orchestrate LERM through the application of their consciousness are able to manifest reality and not simply react to it. This manifestation can be instantaneous because again, quantum objects originate in non-time and non-space."

Sarah: "Not to get overly religious here, but what you're really talking about is what Jesus or other prophets have done--essentially manifest things like turning water to wine or curing the sick. Right?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. It's the same principle only I've described it instead of performed it. It's much easier to perform than describe."

Sarah: "So now you're going to tell me you can turn water into wine?"

Dr. Neruda: "Actually I've never tried that before, but yes, all of the members of the Labyrinth Group can manifest physical objects from out of LERM. This was actually one of the outcomes of Fifteen's discovery. The process of orchestrating LERM and manifesting physical objects on demand."

Sarah: "Okay, now you've definitely got my interest, but I'm feeling a little guilty because I swore I was going to stay on the subject of the WingMakers and the Ancient Arrow project. So tell me, can you teach me how to manifest things out of thin air?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but it would take some time--probably a few weeks or so."

Sarah: "Can you show me some examples of how you do it?"

Dr. Neruda: "How's this?"

Sarah: "For purposes of those reading these transcripts. Dr. Neruda just made a ball of twine appear out of no where. He just made it disappear as well. Now it has reappeared again. This is incredible. He's not holding it, so it's not like a magician who's making this appear from his sleeve or from behind his hands somehow. It's quite literally appearing and disappearing on a table about three feet in front of him, which is about six feet away from me. I can see it all very clearly.

"I'm picking up the ball of string and it's definitely a physical object--not simply a mirage or--or hologram. It has all the normal properties--weight--texture--it's slightly warm to the touch, but in every other respect, it's exactly how I'd expect a ball of twine to feel.

"Can you make something else appear--something more complicated, like a million dollars in cash?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes."

Sarah: "Okay, let's see it."

Dr. Neruda: "You see this is the problem with these discoveries and capabilities. If I produced a million dollars in cash right now, you'd have a dilemma. What to do with a million dollars? Could you bear to see me make it disappear as easily as I make it appear?"

Sarah: "Are you crazy? Since the first moment I met you, I've never believed in what you've said until now. And I'm not even saying I totally believe you even now, but I'm a hell of a lot closer. I--no, people in general, need to see things with our eyes. We need to believe in what our eyes tell us because they -- of all the senses -- seem to have a fix on reality. And you've finally shown me something that is tangible--that my eyes relate to. I'm just asking for one more confirmation of your abilities. I mean, a ball of string doesn't seem like such a huge deal--not that I'm not impressed. But if you could produce a million dollars in cash--now that's a huge deal."

Dr. Neruda: "And the dilemma?"

Sarah: "Okay, I have a proposition for you. I'm going to need to quit my job for at least a few months to get this story out to the public and maybe even relocate or move underground somewhat. What if I kept just ten thousand dollars to help me through the next two months? Could that work for you?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, I could do that."

Sarah: "I'm now looking at a loose pile of $100 bills that appear to be perfect replicas. I'm touching them--again they feel slightly warm to the touch, but these would definitely pass as the real thing--wow--I can't believe it. But this can't be a million dollars, you only manifested $10,000 didn't you?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, give or take a few hundred dollars."

Sarah: "You do realize that you just undermined your own credibility to those who will read this transcript. You just made yourself unbelievable. I'm not even sure I should include this because no one will be believe it anyway, and it may instead hurt your credibility in all the other areas of our discussion. This is truly not a believable experience unless you see it with your own eyes. What should I do?"

Dr. Neruda: "Sarah, whether any one believes me isn't important. No one believes anything anyway unless they experience it, and even then, most people fall back into doubt. Belief is short-lived and always questioned; as it should be. Even the most devote believer is in doubt most of the time, regardless of what they say. So don't worry about whether this impairs my credibility or not. I don't care. It doesn't matter because I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm only trying to get information about the WingMakers to people who can make their own determination of what is true and believable."

Sarah: "Okay--so much for my concern. It'll be the last time I worry about your credibility.

"If you can manifest money like this so easy, why do you need to get paid? I mean who needs money from work?"

Dr. Neruda: "When this technology was discovered, it was only shared within the Labyrinth Group, and it was only used for experiments approved by Fifteen. The same principle would apply to BST or any other technology discovered by the Labyrinth Group that could be used for personal gain or benefit."

Sarah: "Man, you must be a very disciplined group. I don't think I could resist."

Dr. Neruda: The truth is, I'm sure all the members of the Labyrinth Group have, from time-to-time, experimented with this technology in the privacy of their own homes."

Sarah: "Why do you refer to it as a technology? It seems to me that it's a mental thing. You weren't using anything other than your mind were you?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's a technology only from the standpoint of understanding the mental process. There's nothing electronic or mechanical if that's what you mean. But it's more than mind control. It's really a belief in LERM and its unerringly perfect processes of creation -- moving quantum objects from non-space and non-time to the world of matter in our time and space. It's more closely related to faith than technology--as odd as that may sound."

Sarah: "Actually, I was figuring that if Jesus and others who've walked the earth could do these things thousands of years ago, it must not have much to do with technology. But when you see it happen with your own eyes, you have a tendency to think there's some technology behind the scenes that's doing it. That it couldn't just be a natural power of humans--that doesn't seem possible to me for some reason."

Dr. Neruda: "I understand, but nonetheless, it's really a matter of perspective, and once you have the perspective on LERM and it becomes a fundamental construct of your belief system, it becomes amazingly easy to do this. It's a little like a sophisticated optical illusion based on a hologram that takes you several months of concentrating to see the picture that is subtly embedded, but the moment you see it, you can instantly see it the rest of your life without effort. That's how this operates. Some people can pick it up in a matter of a few days, others require hundreds of hours, but what everyone has in common is that once you get it, it becomes as natural as breathing."

Sarah: "And you think you could teach me in a matter of a few weeks, when it took some of your colleagues -- with genius IQs, I might add -- hundreds of hours to learn the technique?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's not related to IQ. It's related to understanding and belief. The understanding comes from seeing the existence of LERM and understanding how it operates at its fundamental level. Whether you have an average intelligence or are a genius, it doesn't matter, so long as you understand and believe what you understand."

Sarah: "So how do you get me to believe in LERM?"

Dr. Neruda: "You already do deep inside you. It's your conscious mind that rejects your deeper belief and understanding. So I would help you to consciously understand what you already know at a deeper level of your being. And I would do this by showing you LERM."

Sarah: "And how would you do that?"

Dr. Neruda: "You would need to come to the Labyrinth Group's research facility in Southern California. It's the only place in the world where I can show you the indisputable evidence of LERM."

Sarah: "Under the circumstances, that doesn't seem like a scenario that will ever happen. There must be another alternative--or said another way, what is it that I'd see at this research center that I couldn't get somewhere else--or through some other means?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'm not saying that the only way to acquire this ability is by seeing LERM in action, but it is very convincing. The Labyrinth Group has a technology -- designed by Fifteen himself -- that quite literally enables an individual to experience LERM. There are also the mystical or shamanic means, but these are far less likely to occur in a two-week period of time. These methods seem independent of circumstance and more dependent on some deeper, predestined or pre-encoded awakening that the individual is not aware of consciously. In some instances this awakening includes an ability to manifest physical objects, but generally, it's done without a conscious knowledge of how it's done. It just works."

Sarah: "Okay, so let's assume I'm not cut out to be a mystic or shaman, what would I see with this technology that would convince me of my abilities to do what you just did?"

Dr. Neruda: "I can't really tell you. It's one of those experiences that words are wholly inadequate to describe or explain. About all I can tell you is that LERM is experienced through this technology, and it essentially, as a result of the experience, re-wires your internal electrical system. In this process, new circuits are cut in your nervous system, and these new circuits enable you to utilize LERM as an outgrowth of your experience of it.

"I doubt this explanation does you any good whatsoever. I've never tried to explain it before, and I can see by the look on your face that I failed miserably."

Sarah: "No, it's not that. I'm just tired of always feeling like I've lived on a different planet all my life. That I've missed out on all of this--it's really distressing to me when I think about it.

"I remember reading a biography about Einstein, and he was quoted saying something like we humans only use about two percent of our intellectual capability. Well, that's about how I feel right now. That I've lived my life at about the two percent level -- if that -- and I'm just beginning to see what he meant. I never had a comparison before now that let me see what the other ninety-eight percent might be like. It's not altogether pleasant to see what's been left out or overlooked--or undervalued."

Dr. Neruda: "I understand."

Sarah: "On to something else. You said earlier that certain technologies like LERM and BST weren't allowed to be used for personal gain by members of the Labyrinth Group. Yet, if BST did exist, wouldn't everyone line up and ask to use it? I know I would. There're a lot of events in my life I'd change if I could. Once the cat's out of the bag, how could BST ever be kept under wraps?"

Dr. Neruda: "Like everything, there are implications and moral and ethical considerations that have to be weighed. One of the things that Fifteen and more generally the Labyrinth Group is good at, is to consider these implications in the broader scope of the social order. Fifteen, from an early age, always felt that the technologies of BST and LERM would only be granted to those organizations that would properly honor the ethical considerations that were required by the technology itself.

"This is one of the fundamental charters of the Labyrinth Group, and all of its members take it very seriously. As a new technology is being developed, there are always members of the team who are concerned with the ethical implications of the technology and are responsible for usage guidelines and deployment rules. This is an integral part of any project's development."

Sarah: "That's good to hear, but couldn't such a charter also be used to prevent the spread of these technologies to a broader audience?"

Dr. Neruda: "Unquestionably. A technology like BST -- once developed and tested -- could, in time, become a consumer technology. But as long as the Labyrinth Group exists, it would protect BST from any and all outside forces. Within the Labyrinth Group there is a committee called the Technology Transfer Program or TTP Committee. This committee has two missions, one, to assess the incoming technologies that are assimilated from ETs, and two, they're responsible for which technologies and in what state of dilution they're transferred to our private industry partners, NSA, or the military.

The TTP Committee is in control of the pure-state technologies that are developed by the Labyrinth Group. These pure-state technologies are virtually never transferred to outside organizations. Even those staff members in the ACIO who are not part of the Labyrinth Group are unaware of these pure-state technologies, and when --"

Sarah: "But if I place these interview transcripts on the Internet or some media publication picks up this story, more than just the ACIO staff members are going to know about this stuff. Isn't this going to screw up the Labyrinth Group's cloak of secrecy?"

Dr. Neruda: "No. The Labyrinth Group is more than a secret organization. For all practical purposes, it doesn't exist. The ACIO doesn't exist. No one will be able to trace the ACIO let alone the Labyrinth Group. Their security technologies are so vastly superior they are completely invulnerable in this regard. Nothing I say, or you publish, will make them more vulnerable. As I said before, their only concern will be the precedent of my defection and how it could create more defections over time."

Sarah: "Why, why would anyone want to leave--I mean I understand your case--you didn't want your memories changed or removed. But they don't commonly do that do they?"

Dr. Neruda: "Not often, but I'm certainly not the first to be targeted to undergo memory implant sessions or other forms of invasive security measures. They're all part of the culture of the Labyrinth Group and the ACIO. Everyone who enters either of those worlds understands what they must subject themselves to. It's very clear why the paranoia must be part of the culture. But over time, certain individuals find it suffocating. And these individuals are the ones who are most at risk to see my defection as a reason for their own.

"I may be entirely wrong about this, but I believe there are ten to twenty individuals who would leave the ACIO or even the Labyrinth Group if they were given the choice without repercussions."

Sarah: "But I thought you said last night that these people were in love with their jobs because of the special access to technologies and research labs that were so advanced to anything else available? If that's the case, what would they do in normal society?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'll find out. I'll be the first to experience normal society--as a normal person."

Sarah: "Well, at least you won't have any problem getting a job--what am I saying, you won't even need to work. I forgot, you can make your own money out of thin air."

Dr. Neruda: "You'd be surprised to know that I live a pretty simple life. I own a 92' Honda Accord and live in a modest three-bedroom home in a suburban neighborhood of modest homes."

Sarah: "You're kidding?"

Dr. Neruda: "No."

Sarah: "You make $400,000 a year tax free and--and have a money tree in your mind, and you live like I do? If you don't mind my asking, what do you do with all your money?"

Dr. Neruda: "I have blind trusts."

Sarah: "Are all the Labyrinth Group members like you?"

Dr. Neruda: "You mean in regard to money and possessions?"

Sarah: "Yes."

Dr. Neruda: "Most live at a higher standard of living than I do, but it is part of our culture to live modestly and none of the members live a pretentious lifestyle. Fifteen pays people what they're worth, not because he wants them to throw money around and live flamboyantly. He's a big believer in this, and he himself, even more than I, lives humbly."

Sarah: "I find this really hard to believe. I think of just about everything you've told me so far, this is one of the hardest things to believe. I'm totally baffled here."

Dr. Neruda: "I can appreciate that, but what I'm telling you is the truth.

"Initially, the way new people are recruited to join the ACIO is largely because of the monetary incentives. These are extremely bright and capable people and could easily secure positions in academia or private industry making $200,000 per year, and more. The ACIO lures them by at least doubling their salary and offering them lifetime employment contracts. But those who ultimately earn the right to enter the twelfth level are then inducted into the Labyrinth Group, and by the time an individual has risen to this status, money has become increasingly unimportant--particularly after the Corteum intelligence accelerator experience--after the LERM experience, it's diminished even more.

"You'd probably find it interesting that Fifteen lives in a small, three-bedroom home in a regular community where the average property value is about $250,000. That's not much of a house by West Coast standards. His automobile must have at least 100,000 miles on it, no air conditioning, and he's perfectly content with his situation. New ACIO recruits are always amazed at Fifteen's thrift--I think bewildered is a better way of putting it. But over time, they learn to respect him not as an eccentric, but as an extremely dedicated genius who simply likes to live like other people and blend in."

Sarah: "Okay--I've got to get personal here, and I know I've totally betrayed my agenda, but you've got to tell me a few things about--well like, what do your neighbors think you do?"

Dr. Neruda: "I don't know my neighbors very well. I've worked seventy hours per week since I was eighteen years old. When I socialize, it's generally with my colleagues. There's very little time for establishing other relationships. But to answer you question directly, I don't know for sure what they think I do--I've only told them I'm a research scientist for the government. For most people that settles their curiosity."

Sarah: "But what if you met a woman and fell in love. She'd want to know what you did and how much money you made and so forth--what would you tell her?"

Dr. Neruda: "I work for a government weather research center. I'm a research scientist in applied chaos theory and I make $85,000 per year."

Sarah: "So you'd lie?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's part of the culture of the Labyrinth Group. We can't tell the truth, and if we did, the vast majority of people would think we were crazy. It's also why we keep to our own--we can tell the truth among ourselves."

Sarah: "When I first heard about the ACIO and its secret mission, and that you were defecting and afraid for your life--I thought the ACIO was an evil-minded, control-the-world type of organization. Then I heard about the kind of money you all made and I pictured a bunch of intellectual snobs driving bullet-proof Mercedes Benzes and living in posh mansions--and you just dismantled my image. You completely destroyed it. So why are you so afraid?"

Dr. Neruda: "The Labyrinth Group, because of its connection to the ACIO, is still very much connected to the secret network of organizations who control a great deal of the world's monetary and natural resource assets. This network of organizations will know about my defection the instant these materials I've given you gain any visibility in the press or on the Internet. They will know of its authenticity by simply reading these two interviews. While there's nothing they can do to the ACIO or the Labyrinth Group, they can make my life difficult to live.

"And they will most definitely try. I know all about their technologies and how they deploy them. I know the people behind these organizations and I know how they operate. I have knowledge that I've only shown you a small fraction of. And this knowledge would make certain individuals -- very powerful individuals -- very uncomfortable. It's extremely rare, but when high-level operatives defect, they're hunted like dogs until they're found and disposed of, or, if they serve an ongoing purpose, their memories are selectively wiped clean. It's one of the unfortunate realities of having dealt with these organizations."

Sarah: "But you were just a scientist--a linguist, for God's sake. How does that make you a threat to these secret organizations?"

Dr. Neruda: "I was the one that created the underlying encryption technology for their security system that overlays their predictive modeling software for the world's stock exchanges. I may be a simple scientist in your eyes, but my talents for linguistics is not the only talent I possess. I'm also gifted in the field of encryption. And within the world of economics, I'm simply the best. And this talent was given to certain organizations to help them, and in the process of doing so, I learned about these organizations and how they operate. It makes me a security risk."

Sarah: "Why? I mean if the ACIO and Labyrinth Group have so much money--why work with these evil groups?"

Dr. Neruda: "First of all, they're not evil. These organizations consist of well-educated elitists who're self-absorbed perhaps, but not evil. They look at the world as a biological experience where the strong survive, the powerful thrive, and the secretive control. They like being in control of the experience. They are the ultimate control freaks, but not for the sake of adoration or ego-gratification, but for the sake that they genuinely believe they're the best at making policy decisions that effect the world's economy and security.

"Don't confuse control with evil intent. It's not necessarily one and the same thing. That's the game they choose to play. The fact that they make incredible sums of money is simply part of the game, but it's not the reason they sit in the driver's seat of the world's economy--they simply want to protect their life's agenda like anyone else would. It's just that they're in the position to actually do it. They get their security from being at the top of the economic food-chain."

Sarah: "But they're manipulating people and keeping information from them. If this isn't evil, what is?"

Dr. Neruda: "By your definition, our national government, our local government, virtually every business and organization, is evil. Everyone manipulates and keeps information hidden. Governments, organizations, and individuals."

Sarah: "You're twisting my words. It's a matter of degree isn't it? I mean, it's one thing if I don't tell you my true hair color, and it's another thing if, as part of this secret network, I withhold information about how I'm manipulating the world economy. They're entirely different in scale. You can't compare them. I still think it's evil when organizations manipulate and control things for their own gain."

Dr. Neruda: "Believe me, I didn't set out to be the defender of these organizations, but you need to understand this because it's important and it may effect you in the days ahead. This secret network of powerful organizations are more aligned with the goals of the Labyrinth Group than our world's governments, and, in particular, our military leaders. If you're worried about anything, you would be well advised to worry more about the administration, Congress, and the Department of Defense--not only in the United States, but in every country."

Sarah: "How can you say that? Are you saying that our government and military leaders are trying to cause us harm and these secret, manipulative organizations are trying to help us?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'm saying that the leadership in the world's community of nations is inept, and can be bought with the holy dollar. And that it's not the secret network that I've been talking about who's manipulating our government and military leadership to invest huge amounts of money in destructive forces like nuclear and biological weapons. This, they're deciding on their own. The secret organizations that I'm pointing the finger at are opposed to these military build-ups because they interject a degree of uncertainty in their models for controlling economic and social order.

"The politicians and military leaders are the ones who're investing time, energy, and money in weapons of mass destruction, and these, if there is such a thing as evil, are it."

Sarah: "Okay. I see your point. But you implied that these secret organizations would try and kill us if we published and distributed all of this? I still don't see how that makes them so noble."

Dr. Neruda: "I don't think you have to be concerned about these secret organizations. You don't know enough to be dangerous to them. Besides, they're used to journalists snooping around and trying to expose them. None have succeeded in any meaningful way. Dozens of books have been written about them. So they're not going to bother you. Their interest will be in me and me alone. It's one of the reasons why I'm careful in what I tell you. I know they'll read these transcripts, as will the NSA, CIA, ACIO, and the entire Labyrinth Group. I'm allowing you to record these conversations because I know who will hear these exact words, and I want them to know precisely what I have shared with you, and through you, to others.

"I'm not making a value judgment as to whether these secret organizations are noble or not. I'm merely pointing out that they're not the ones wasting huge sums of money and intellectual capital on weapons of mass destruction. They're significantly more competent to rule than our politicians and military leaders are. And this is simply my opinion."

Sarah: "I still don't get it. If the Labyrinth Group, the ACIO and this secret network of organizations are all so noble and benevolent, why are you afraid for your life? And why are they hiding from the public like cockroaches?"

Dr. Neruda: "To answer your first question, I fear for my life because I know information that could cause irreparable harm to a variety of secret organizations--though I have no intention to do so."

Sarah: "But simply because you know these things they'll hunt you down and kill you? Sounds like a nice group to me. Certainly not evil..."

Dr. Neruda: Remember--they're control freaks. They don't like having anyone loose who could cause them potential harm. If I wanted to, I could bring them down. I know that much about their computer algorithms and encryption technologies."

Sarah: "But how would you get access to their system. It would seem to me that you'd be placing yourself in great jeopardy if you tried to get into their system."

Dr. Neruda: "I don't need to get into their system to cause them harm, I need to get into their system to prevent harm. They will invite me into their system."

Sarah: "I don't understand."

Dr. Neruda: "When I developed the system initially, there were certain time-delayed algorithms that were scripted to occur at specific times, and if they were not maintained accordingly, the program would essentially self-destruct. Something that these organizations cannot afford to happen."

Sarah: "Why did they agree to this?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's part of the fee that the Labyrinth Group extracts from its clients. More importantly, it ensures that our technologies -- even in their diluted states -- are operated according to our agreement and not misused. I have the access codes for this system and the maintenance key that will prevent it from crashing. I've made certain that I'm the only one who has this knowledge."

Sarah: "You're telling me that with all those photographic memories running around at the Labyrinth Group, that you're the only one who knows the code?"

Dr. Neruda: "I didn't exactly report the right number when I did my last update of their system--so, yes, I'm the only one who knows the correct code. I designed it that way to ensure my safety."

Sarah: "But with all the geniuses in the Labyrinth Group, you're telling me that they can't solve this problem themselves?"

Dr. Neruda: "Not without a significant amount of time--which is something Fifteen won't agree to do. It's too wasteful and a major distraction to BST research."

Sarah: "Do they already know about this?"

Dr. Neruda: "Oh, yes. I informed them shortly after I defected."

Sarah: "They must have been pissed."

Dr. Neruda: "It wasn't a pleasant conversation to put it mildly."

Sarah: "I was thinking about all of this sophisticated technology that the Labyrinth Group has, but I don't understand something. How do you manufacture it? I assume Intel isn't doing the manufacturing. Right?"

Dr. Neruda: "Correct. There's no one on this planet that can manufacture these technologies. They're all based upon the Corteum technology -- which is about 150 generations ahead of our best computer technologies here on earth. For example, the LERM project used only one domestic technology in the total array of about 200 different technologies, and it was a relatively insignificant part of the project."

Sarah: "What was it?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's a derivative of a laser telemetry technology that the ACIO developed about 20 years ago, but it filled the specific needs of the LERM project because it was based on analog protocols which were required for the application in that specific part of the experiment."

Sarah: "So the Corteum performs all the manufacturing of what the Labyrinth Group designs. What if the Corteum decide, for whatever reason, not to share these technologies all of sudden? Wouldn't the Labyrinth Group cease to exist?"

Dr. Neruda: "Perhaps. But Fifteen is shrewd and he's put certain contingencies in place to help ensure nothing like that would ever happen. Bear in mind, that the Corteum are at least as motivated as we are to develop this technology, perhaps more. They have tremendous respect for Fifteen as well as the other human contingent of the Labyrinth Group. However, when the Labyrinth Group was first formed, Fifteen negotiated with the Corteum to share all source code for the projects that came out of BST research. All base technologies were replicated in two separate research labs. There's complete redundancy right down to the power supplies."

Sarah: "Won't the leaders of these secret organizations try and pressure Fifteen to find you--with their remote viewing technology, can't they find you easily?"

Dr. Neruda: "The leaders of these secret organizations well know they have no leverage with Fifteen. After they read this information, they will know they have even less leverage. Fifteen and the Labyrinth Group designed and developed all of their security systems. Every last one. They knew they had to be indebted to the Labyrinth Group for certain technologies that made them -- speaking metaphorically -- invisible. Fifteen cannot be pressured. In fact, it's just the opposite. Fifteen can pressure them, though he never would. To Fifteen, these organizations simply represent the best alternative to letting our own governments take control of the economic engines and social order of the world infrastructure. Hence, he sympathizes with them and tries to help them to the extent he can afford the time and energy."

Sarah: "So how will you hide from them?"

Dr. Neruda: "As I told you before, I began to systematically disentangle myself from the ACIO's invasive security precautions, which include electronic sensors implanted underneath the skin in the back of the neck. I effectively stripped myself of these devices so I'd have a chance of remaining underground until a reasonable solution could be negotiated."

Sarah: "But you said they had RV technology that can locate you. What about this?"

Dr. Neruda: "There's little doubt that they will try this, but it's not an exact science. An RV could see this room, but not have a clue as to how to find it. They might be able to key in on a particular object -- like that clock, for example -- but unless it was the only clock of its kind and they could trace its location, it wouldn't help them."

Sarah: "Is there anything I should be worried about, then?"

Dr. Neruda: "I think we need to move around a bit, and vary our meeting time and place. We should conduct the next interview in a new environment -- perhaps outdoors. Something generic without landmarks."

Sarah: "So they can't read my street sign and then look at my house's address -- I mean if they were doing an RV session right now?"

Dr. Neruda: "They would try, and it's possible they'd be successful, but not likely.

Sarah: "I suddenly got very nervous. You're not making me feel comfortable with this."

Dr. Neruda: "I can only be honest."

Sarah: "What would they do with me and my daughter if they found us?"

Dr. Neruda: "I think you could assume that they'd perform an MRP of the entire experience of meeting me."

Sarah: "They wouldn't kill us?"

Dr. Neruda: "I don't think so. Fifteen doesn't resort to violence unless it's absolutely necessary."

Sarah: "Shit. I wish I knew about this before I agreed to get my daughter and I involved. Just tell me one thing; do you know when they're doing an RV session? I mean, can you feel it or anything?"

Dr. Neruda: "I can sense it, but it's not something that's absolute."

Sarah: "Is there any defense against it?"

Dr. Neruda: "None."

Sarah: "So all we do is hope that their damn RV is incompetent?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'll only stay for short periods of time, and it'll be late at night when they're far less likely to perform an RV session. It'd be a good practice to vary our meeting place, as I suggested before. Other than that, I don't know what more we can do."

Sarah: "I assume there's nothing the police or FBI could do to help?"

Dr. Neruda: "Nothing that I'm interested in."

Sarah: "But what will you do to protect yourself?"

Dr. Neruda: "As you can imagine, Sarah, there's certain information I can't share with you given the nature of these interviews. This is one instance I can't tell you more than I already have."

Sarah: "I'm feeling the need to bring this session to an end. My mind is quite literally filled to the brim. I think if you told me anything profound right now, it'd just go in one ear and out the other. Can we meet again on Tuesday and perhaps pick-up where we left off tonight?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, that's fine with my schedule."

Sarah: "Okay. Signing off for tonight."

End of Session



Interview 1 | Interview 2 | Interview 3 | Interview 4


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